All in all I'd guess EC is embarrassed by the tourney this year. Apparently refs weren't scheduled by the state, and nobody followed up from the school to check up on the state. Refs were eventually found, but the tournament was already compromised. Wrestling started about two hours late, switched to single elimination for the first round. All went well til about 2pm when it was decided to take all winners of consi QF contest for fifth place, and champ semi losers contest for third. The resulting revamp of the brackets crashed the system and the tournament stopped for another two hours.
Highlights from the wrestling:
145 - Veleas over Roberts 8-7
132 - Julian over Accousti 4-2 OT
126 - Hudson over Folino 12-6
Unreal
What teams were there?
1. Enfield 134½, 2. Manchester 120, 3. East Hartford 111, 4. Northwestern 106, 5. Canton 98, 6. Notre Dame-West Haven 97, 7. Glastonbury 90, 8. RHAM 84, 9. Newington 79, 10. East Catholic 77, 11. Newtown 74, 12. Joel Barlow 57½, 13. Berlin 54, 14. Maloney 49, 15. Stafford 48, 16. Rocky Hill 40, 17. East Windsor 18, 18. Derby 12, 19. Seymour 4, 20. Rockville 0
How come Barlow doesn’t jump into some real tournaments ? Are they trying to pad their kids records nice and easy? I know they have a few good wrestlers but why does it seem like every tournament or dual meet they do is so easy? If I wasa parent of the couple good kids I wouldn’t be happy about that. Nothing better than seeing all the top kids before opens.
I think some of there's guys hit the mail on the head in terms of teams like Barlow. There is a curve where you need enough depth to compete at a higher level. Totally agree with you.
I think your missing the point. Joel Barlow ONLY has a few good wrestlers, 3-4 good guys isn't a team, it isn't a program. They finished 12th at that tournament with 9 wrestlers entered an one guy reaching the finals. To me that sound like they went to a tournament that was PERFECT for them as a team. If we keep the focus as a state on only our elites and fail to develop the mid/lower level wrestlers and make sure our teams have 13-14 weights filled, then CT wrestling is going to start dying out. We already have less than 25% of our teams filling their lineup, with another 25% that fill 8 or less weights and participation has been dropping every year for years.
i agree - i see teams with huge win records and then look at their schedule and laugh. and those records influence team rankings. though the only thing that matters is the ability and not the record, i just have to remember back a couple years where the 106 (i think from st paul) was seated first because he had 50% forfeits. and he was out in 2.
I think I read somewhere here where teams will start getting penalized for padding records for forfeits and bumping around better kids. I believe the same should be applied based on level of difficulty of their schedule and who they’ve faced. Having 35 wins and 0 loses and not facing any of the boys who went 33-2 or 32-3 per se but they faced all the top ranked kids shouldn’t be seeded higher at opens if they’ve not gone head to head All year with the boys who had a much tougher schedule. I’m sure some will disagree , especially those who’s boys and or coaches do this but it’s only fair and how I feel.
This discussion has been had for years and i don't see any change in the near future... Teams like Danbury, Xavier and Southington travel to big time tourneys and take loses. Their athletes enter the class tournaments with 4/5 losses and get seeded lower than they should. Just to become bracket busters when they take out a top 4 seed in the round of 16 or 8. Returning placement points normally level out the seeding criteria, but that is not the case for incoming freshman. Perfect example is Rapuano this year... he took 3 losses at eastern states and placed 8th. I'd take those 3 quality losses any day over 4 wins in some quad in CT against sub par competition. Shook says it best every year, he travels to get high level matches and for his kids to take losses, its the only way his athletes continue to develop and work harder.
@Run.the.Pipes I think there is all the evidence in the world to support that ideology. The only question, though, is when do you start doing that as a team? I think the development of the program only happens when there are some wins and there are some kids that see some success. Obviously there is a point where you have to go out and challenge yourself, but there are different levels for different teams, no? Rapuano has always been great. He has to do those tournaments because that's the next step in his development. You gave the best public school in the northeast, A solid private school who can take anyone from any town and competes against public schools, and a program that's got 631 wins since 1975. These are established programs who go out and challenge themselves. All I'm saying is I think most coaches want their wrestlers to get better, but calling Timberlane isn't necessarily always the answer.
@Interestedparty i think you are spot on with your comment about development of a program, and the question of when does a program begin to experiment with higher level completion isn't an easy answer. I think to start, coaches need to get their higher level athletes to the tougher tournaments. i.e New Canaan sending Sung to Beast of the East and Eastern States. They also sent the Sibbet brothers to Eastern States which was definitely out of their league, but there is no doubt they learned from the experience and will benefit from that competition level. (big deal they both took 2 losses). i did list 3 of the premier programs in the state, but we can also go the opposite direction with other programs that are well established in CT. Ledyard, Windham, Bristol Eastern, Simsbury are seasoned programs and continuously under perform come opens because their athletes don't see the National/NE level of competition throughout the year. I think these programs along with many others could benefit from 1 or 2 weekends of higher level competitions, even if the majority of the team goes 0-2. Sometimes all it takes a 1 really good quality win and an athlete starts to believe they can perform better than they ever expected.
I know we are on the same page here and this is not me taking a stab at your comment, any program, or coaching decision. The discussion was started in regard to seeding and the impact of a athletes record. At times two wrestlers may see each other earlier in a tourney then we expect to see, but in the end... the wrestlers who "should be" on the podium always find a way to be.
The tough part of that is it makes it some what subjective. I agree witH the concept. always say the creame always rises to the top come tournament time. But it can screw a kid that gets a bad seed
The seeding definitely matters if the competition between the wrestlers is close. It doesn't matter if someone is dominant.
If a coach is willing or purposely doing that, then he shouldn't be a coach. Ive seen horrible coaches in a lot of youth and high school sports and its sad.
At the end of the day you just have to wrestle your best and seeding usual works itself out.
I was told by a longtime coach that the reason they are going to Flo is to be able to quantify quality matches and dodgers.
As a state we need to stop focusing so much on developing individuals and more on developing programs. Our overall participation numbers are dropping, the number of kids entered into the class tournaments is dropping every year, even as our elites get better and better the sport is withering away in this state. For every Danbury or Southington theres a New Cannan or a Joel Barlow who always have a few great wrestlers but can't even fill 10 weight classes this year. Then there's all the schools with only 7-8 (Or less) weights even filled, and coaches who don't see that as their biggest problem (which it is) If we as a state don't start building full programs, not just elites, the sport isn't going to be healthy here for long.